Ocean and Michele: the Robbins on life, love, and raising Children - Interview

Working with teens and promoting ethical consumption is Ocean and Michele Robbins' specialty. As the co-executive directors of Youth for Environmental Sanity (Yes!), the Robbins are in constant contact with a number of teens whose concern for the state of the world is a top priority.

Being the only son of John and Deo Robbins, Ocean was reared as a vegetarian and has first-hand experience in dealing with many of the issues addressed in Vegetarian Baby and Child. Now, as the proud parents of their 2-year-old twin boys, River and Bodhi, Ocean and Michele are able to bring their unique perspective to parenting.

I spoke with Ocean and Michele last spring when River and Bodhi were only 14 months old. They openly shared their thoughtful approach to life, parenting, and living while River and Bodhi nursed and sang in the background.

Michele, could you tell me a little about your background and your vegetarianism?

I grew up with a standard American diet. I used to say the four food groups were "bologna, hotdogs, Wonder bread, and ice cream." When I was 13, I saw a presentation on Diet for a New America. At that moment, I became a vegetarian. It was very clear for me. Then, when I was 16, I became vegan.

Since the boys were premature, have your physicians or family members expressed any concerns about them being vegetarian?

Ocean: At this point, they are basically just having breast milk. Most medical schools in this country have no required courses in nutrition. So, it's the last place you would want to look for advice on diet.

I assume you live in a vegetarian haven where nobody is going to disagree with it.

Michele: Definitely, living with and being the children of John Robbins, most people we interact with have a sense that we are not going....

Ocean: ....we're not going to change out diet because of what they tell us.

Michele: Whether [my family] agrees specifically with every choice I make or not, they know I'm making it from a lot of thought, research and integrity. They all generally believe the choices I'm making are the healthiest ones.

Ocean: They are philosophically sympathetic (laughter) if not aligned.

At what age do you think children should decide for themselves about their vegetarianism?

Ocean: I think it's unique in each relationship. When they are exposed to meat, I will tell them what it is, where it comes from, who died for it, and how they lived. I will try to do it sensitively. Meat is an embodiment of the lives those animals lived, the deaths they died, and the resources that went into them. I think it is important for River and Bodhi to know.

I want to always have respect for who they are and for their right to self-determination; to be willing to put aside dogma for the sake of that. At the same time, I feel like it's a statement of respect for their souls, for their consciousness, love, and the commitment they bring into this world that I want to support them in eating foods that are truly in alignment with who they are. Right now, it's my job to make a lot of those decisions from the best wisdom that I can. When the time comes, they will make their own choices. Until that time, I represent them. I believe that I'm representing them well, and I believe I will represent them well because the facts and the realities of our food choices are pretty clear.

How do you hope to handle the influence of mainstream values (birthday parties, forbidden foods, watching TV), and how do you suggest others handle them?

Michele: This is an ongoing journey, and I expect this is going to be an area where we may experiment with different things at different times. It's quite possible that we will, at least primarily, not put them in situations where there will be a lot of those things we don't want them to have until they are at an age where we can talk beforehand, during, and afterwards about exactly what's going to be there, why we have concerns about it, why we aren't going to want them... [Bodhi vocalizes as if to say, "I want that birthday party"... laughter].

That's how [John and Deo] dealt with it for five years; they lived on an island with nobody else. We're in a different situation. I anticipate, for the next few years, most of their friends are going to be people whose parents share a degree of alignment with our lifestyle choices. It won't be as extreme as it is for other people who haven't been able to create that kind of a community for themselves. I think we will have them at a lot fewer birthday parties until they are at an age where we can really talk about it, because putting them in a situation where you're just saying "no," and they're really not capable of understanding why, can't help but be distressing to kids. It can't help but feel unfair, unjust and wrong. I want to prevent that kind of experience whenever possible as a primary way of handling it.

So what would you say is the role or level of importance of creating a vegetarian community in which to raise your kids that's outside of your immediate family?

Michele: I think it's critical to have people around you, supporting the values that you are trying to bring to your child. Vegetarianism is just one example of a choice we are trying to make that is counter to mainstream culture. Any time you are trying to do something that goes against the grain of society, it's hard and it's confusing. You get so many messages that what you are doing is not OK that it takes so much energy just to keep affirming what feels right to you. As much as possible, we need to put ourselves into communities where our energies don't go to defending what really feels right to us, but instead, really be present for our children; loving them and enjoying them. Our lives would be easier and more supported. Whether it's the vegetarian community or a community that is supportive of people's choices, it is critical.

Ocean: I think the other piece of it is that there needs to be a strong enough foundation of common values that people really feel affirmed with who they are and [have] a healthy relationship to the rest of the world so there isn't a sense of isolation or separation. One of the values I was raised with is that there is a spark of the divine in everybody, and as Abraham Lincoln said, "The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him or her a friend." I think knowing how to do that, having a sense of confidence in our ability to do that is one of the most fundamental and important life skills that a human being can have. I want to support River and Bodhi in doing that and part of that means we don't throw them in head first into a deep swimming pool before they can swim. They have to learn step by step in shallow waters with a lot of support and love. I also don't want them to grow up with an attitude of fear towards those who are different from them, but rather an attitude of respect, love, and basic sense of c onfidence in the decency of humanity.

How is it possible to teach our kids to accept other people's choices when they are so obviously damaging to our world?

Michele: One of the keys is the degree to which you set up a world where you are saying, "we know what is right and we are doing that. Other people don't and they're not." Of course, it is going to set up some kind of judgment, not just for children. How do we as adults live in the world and not be judgmental of everybody? I deal with this myself; how to walk in the world and be truly compassionate, not just compassionate in the patronizing "oh, I'm sorry you don't get it yet" sense. Critical to that is to recognize that I certainly feel that I am gifted with both the awareness and the support and the ability to live my values in my diet. But you know what; there are a lot of other places in my life that aren't necessarily aligned. We drive our cars more than I think is healthiest for the planet. There are specific kinds of lifestyle things we do that I think are less than the ideal choice, and I'm judgmental sometimes when I think I would rather be compassionate.

To create a context where the whole human experience is a spectrum and [to understand that] we all have areas where we are strong and clear and other areas where we are struggling while we try to bring our lives into alignment; to hold a space of acknowledgement for each person, including ourselves so we're acknowledging where we're growing so our kids know what's hard for us, where we struggle and also where we feel good. That's where they stop living in the world of black and white and they see the whole spectrum of gray in each decision and in each moment in our lifestyle, our emotional and our relationship choices and all those things. To see each person as a human being dealing with whatever their background is, what their parents did and told them, with all kinds of influences, and their physical realities now. There are so many factors that influence people's choices around diet and around every other choice. To me, the more we just bring our children in on the whole process and not just make it a this way and that way, right and wrong kind of world; that to me is part of the key.

Ocean: Our message is that our world needs you. Hope is a choice, not a passive response to external stimuli, and that hope is alive so long as we are choosing as best we can to live our lives with integrity with our highest commitment. Our message is that you matter. You are precious and important, and this world needs every drop of love and every choice of integrity that you could possibly share.

Lucy Watkins is both the activism and interview section editor for Vegetarian Baby and Child magazine.

COPYRIGHT 2002 Vegetarian Baby and Child
COPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group